Curse

Horus Moonlight · Dec 13, 2010, 03:28 AM // 03:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

How is it nonsense?

Flare is crap against anything and everything. You bring it in normal mode, and it's crap. You use it against 60AL, level 20 targets, and it's still crap. But apparently when you make it an Elite Skill and shove it on Necros, it becomes great?

The comparison to Flare shows just how garbage Discord is. On it's own, it's absolutely terrible. On a full Hero team, you're taking out half an enemy health bar in 3 second intervals. If you're running an AP Caller, then you can actually kill an enemy every 3 seconds (maybe)...and that's assuming Discord is actually getting spammed every available chance.

So yeah, Discord is "great" if half of your team build is devoted to either supporting Discord or spamming it every chance they get...and fully optimized, that's still 24 seconds per mob at its absolute best.

Are you trying to compare fire damage to armor-ignoring damage?

**Marty Silverblade** · Dec 13, 2010, 04:27 AM // 04:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

How is it nonsense?

Your justification was insufficient simply because it was completely false for any non-trivial situation. One thing Discord has over Flare is that it's armor ignoring, and so the level and AL of the foe does not matter. Flare will only outperform Discord when the foes AL is ~60 and their level is ~20. Those values are not good for comparison. More appropriate comparisons would be done in Hard Mode, at which you can expect 100AL (personal guesstimate) and level 24+. You can probably see this yourself, but if a 127 damage Rodgort's comes down to ~40 (66% reduction), a 68 damage Flare will come down to 23, which is 13DPS, adding in aftercast. 13 is not a larger number than 33.

Dusk_ · Dec 13, 2010, 05:58 AM // 05:58

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marty Silverblade

Your justification was insufficient simply because it was completely false for any non-trivial situation. One thing Discord has over Flare is that it's armor ignoring, and so the level and AL of the foe does not matter. Flare will only outperform Discord when the foes AL is ~60 and their level is ~20. Those values are not good for comparison. More appropriate comparisons would be done in Hard Mode, at which you can expect 100AL (personal guesstimate) and level 24+. You can probably see this yourself, but if a 127 damage Rodgort's comes down to ~40 (66% reduction), a 68 damage Flare will come down to 23, which is 13DPS, adding in aftercast. 13 is not a larger number than 33.

Except you would never even use Flare. The point isn't that Flare is better and that you should use it, it's that Discord is comparable to a terrible skill.

What's the difference between Discord in Normal mode and Hard mode? Absolutely nothing. So if the DPS is absolute crap in Normal, why is it so impressive in Hard Mode?

Jeydra · Dec 13, 2010, 06:15 AM // 06:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Huh?

Of course I'm not comparing it to an AoE spike, or a PvP spike skill.

Discord is a damage skill used in PvE that is spammed as much as possible to spike down single targets, which is exactly what Flare is.

Now, if you wanted to argue that Discord has 2 seconds of unused time to cast other stuff, then you might have a point. If used as supplemental damage to a bunch of other skills, it could warrant an inclusion, but as your primary DPS source that uses up 4/8 bars? Not a chance.

Are you talking about Discord or Discordway?

Dusk_ · Dec 13, 2010, 06:35 AM // 06:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeydra

Are you talking about Discord or Discordway?

Both.

Discord is essentially an Elite Flare, and with Discordway you're just amplifying the issues by basing half of your team around it.

Xenomortis · Dec 13, 2010, 02:39 PM // 14:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Except you would never even use Flare. The point isn't that Flare is better and that you should use it, it's that Discord is comparable to a terrible skill.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Discord is essentially an Elite Flare, and with Discordway you're just amplifying the issues by basing half of your team around it.

It's not even close.
Ignoring for a minute that Discord is armour-ignoring whilst Flare is armour-sensitive, the fact that Discord does ~100 damage every 3-4 seconds puts it far above Flare.

To get Flare spam to deal as much damage as Discord on recharge, every second of your time available must be spent on casting flare. To get Flare to match Discord you would be completely immobile and unable to do anything else. And once you factor in higher armour levels Flare will never match Discord's DPS.

Your argument is laughable after a mere cursory glance.

Rushin Roulette · Dec 13, 2010, 03:04 PM // 15:04

For a start, those MM builds are terrible together. Each bar alone is OK, but put them all together and it spells serious fail. The reason for this is:
1. AotL hogs all corpses in the area which will seriously hinder the other 2 MM Necros. You might as well change this to a 3rd Discord Necro or be imaginative and go for something completely new.
2. You have 3 Minion Masters. Lets imagine that all 3 MMs can get a full army of minions up (around 25-30 Minions)... Have you thought about what will happen if Olias casts BotM?

Take out that one skill and you should be OK.

All in all, the builds are not really very imaginative as others have said. They will work as they are working now if you go 2players / 6 Hereos. Theres not much more we can say apart from that.

EDIT: @ all others crying about Dicord vs. Flare 0.o Go troll another thread and leave this one to criticising and improving the OP build. There are enough threads saying "Discord rulz" or "Discord Suxz" go find one of them and carry on playing there.
EDIT 2: Bolded last edit... sigh.

Delete HB Already · Dec 14, 2010, 06:26 AM // 06:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dusk_

Except you would never even use Flare. The point isn't that Flare is better and that you should use it, it's that Discord is comparable to a terrible skill.

What's the difference between Discord in Normal mode and Hard mode? Absolutely nothing. So if the DPS is absolute crap in Normal, why is it so impressive in Hard Mode?

Most skills would do less damage in HM than NM because of armor and since discord is armor ignoring it is therefore not weakened in HM like most other skills would that are not armor ignoring. I am not saying that it is better in HM than other builds but it certainly doesn't decrease in damage in HM. Besides, running discordway with an AP caller and being able to micro discords all at once can kill the target immediately without it being able to be healed.

Dzjudz · Dec 14, 2010, 02:38 PM // 14:38

Why does this have its own thread? This is just spiritway+discordway+mesway, he even says it in the OP.

russiansteven · Dec 14, 2010, 10:41 PM // 22:41

Thanks for the help (I guess)

Feel free to delete/remove this thread as I have moved on to a better build

No morez traz talk